Sure, no argument. I link to them on the page I maintain, but don't know any of them. I could suggest a few causes for that current malaise, but if there's any talent in their present administration, power to them.

I think Jim would make a wonderful cast director, but he'd be missed by either side...

Abe -

By all means, espouse away. I'd love to hear as many takes as possible on how to make Rocky a better show all around. Its really painful watching a show with an attendance measuring around a dozen, so the more the merrier. Its time a debate be heard on this.

Pinkie -

Agreed. But there's only so much Jim to go around. Hope you haven't given up completely on the performing thing, though. There's a shortage of perfect breasts in the world, you know?

*And before I get any hate mail, that's a Princess Bride reference, not my hitting on her*

So, as a clarification, would this be a merger or a partnership between casts? I mean, surely you're not proposing that THEM simply relenquish their autonomy to SP. I just don't see that happening. Now, were this a partnership between casts, that's a little more plausable. However, the question remains as to whether or not either cast would be amicable to such a partnership...

It's a noble idea you're proposing here, Greg. I mean, both shows have been hurting lately. Contrary to popular belief, it is possible for Rocky to die out in a major market. It died in Philly, it can die here. So perhaps it would take a change of this magnitude for the situation to improve.

SP really isn't a Houston show anymore. Looking at the demographics of the cast, it is by and large a Pearland/Webster/League City show. I don't know many audience members outside who would be willing to travel that half-hour from downtown to there for the show. And forget trying to draw from the Woodlands and Spring. THEM is the show for them (ha, I made a funny). It's a matter of demographics and marketing. Where is your target audience?

By "causes" I was referring to my input on the old who-got-who-thrown-out-of-where question, but that's history. Not irrelevant, but past. As to present problems at RO, there's any difficulty with management there (don't know about that) and the other thing...

TICKET PRICE.

It's a 'midnight movie' rerun. Bring the price down and the law of supply and demand relative to price kicks in: the lower the price, the more the sales.

Dave Gill was right; RHPS competes not with other films but with the clubs. The young punks and snots who are broke come to Rocky. So get the price down to where they are. Otherwise the theater should give up.

Uber -

I think whether its a merger/affiliation/realignment/whatever is open to debate. And its a point that deserves more than just my singular voice. I have no clue what T.H.E.M. would be open to, but I think it would be best if their cast stuck around, either in part or in entirety. Let some of the better character developers, such as yourself, Jim, and if he could help out, David Z. Personal issues aside, I'd like to think Jef could also help, but I don't pretend to know the full politics behind Jef & River Oaks. Still, he & Lynda both have great track records for working with cast.

That's primarily what's lacking in that the cast may be enjoying themselves to high heaven, but the dropoff in attendance since I've been going to shows here (not to mention those who's history goes farther back than mine) is noticable and it seems to be getting to a critical point. It shows that the finished product is lacking and needs work.

How to get from the point we are at now to the point where I, and hopefully dozens of other audience members, enjoy the hell out of their experience, I don't pretend to have all the answers. I'd love to hear what people who read this are, or are not amenable to, though.

Abe -

Understandable about the ticket prices. The tradeoff would be that to get to, say a $5 ticket, you'd have to show a theater that they'd get that 1/3rd increase in attendance to offset it and that they'd also get more concession sales. It all comes down to the bottom line.

Still, its easier to spend someone else's money. You have to show em what you can do to get a return on that investment, though.

I'd think it'd be great fun. It would improve cast realtions too, depsite any differences between cast directors or just ex beautiful creatures in general, many members of both casts still dont' really know eachother. I do have to poitn out that David has said time and time again he will not perform at river oaks again. It has nothing to do with THEM.

I think Jim is a great guy but be forwarned, his style of directing is not what most of you are probably used too. For those of you who don't truly know Jim, he's a no mess around kind of guy and he doesn't take any shit. His directing would most definitely improve the show but it would also bruise many egos/hineys on the way there.

~J~

On the pricing thing, the theater management should know already how price affects traffic. Not only should they not EVER get involved in cast politics (reference to past), they should know about that time-honored strategy, having a SALE. Price down, traffic up. If they need God to tell them "I've rigged the game for you; you'll break even on the deal in two weeks and clear $4003.75 in 90 days", then they don't have the capacity for the limited risk that business requires of anyone. If the guy/girl/armadillo in charge up there is risk-averse, they should go into another line of work. It's a little risky to run RHPS, anyway.

J -

No doubt, Jim would be a change of pace from the existing casts. I've obviously got a lot of faith in his ability as a communicator, though. Yeah, he'll want the best out of anyone, but he's more than able to let everyone know its not because he just wants it done *his* way. He knows the show is about entertaining the audience. It should be entertaining and fun for the cast as well, but who's to say that putting on a kick-ass show isn't fun? Teams that win the Super Bowl have more fun then the other teams that don't. Obviously, I approach that viewpoint from one who doesn't nor has ever performed Rocky on a stage, but taken from work, or even back in the day when I had a garage band ... when you do your best work, and you see the effect it has on people, there's a reward in and of itself to that.

I could be wrong ... I don't claim omnipotence in all of this, but I think throwing cast up there that does not even know the movie only builds bad habits, instills indifference towards the overall performance, and turns off the crowd.

Jim's had a lot of time to work as a "cast elder" if you will and the reaction I see other performers in him is one of respect for his abilities and knowledge. I've seen him work with cast in an indirect role and its never been anything short of positive. I also know him well enough to know there's no ego behind that. Confidence yes, but not ego.

It'll be a change that not everyone would accept, but I would opine that those who are up to it and really want to see what they can be at their best as an amateur performer would be well served by such a change. Those that know Jim know what to expect and I would think may appreciate a show that runs as well as Jim is capable of putting on.

So has Jim agreed to this, or do we have to hold him captive in the garage behind Mary's until he relents?

To the extent I know Jim, I know he will not back down from a task of this extraordinary magnitude (anyone guess the movie reference to that one?). But I speak only for myself.

"Let's face it, Jim's old..."

"Therefore my age is as a lusty winter,
Frosty, but kindly."

You know I couldn't resist that crack!

It's an interesting idea, but I haven't been consulted seriously about any of this, and I am certainly not eager to step all over people's toes about something that's as important to them as this by jumping into it without more deliberation.

It's something I'd consider if it were available, but I think we'd have to hear from more than just the three or four of us who do circle-jerks in Greg's playpen on a regular basis. That is not specifically a request for endorsements (nor a refusal to listen to them) - it's merely a request for as wide a discussion on an issue like this as possible. I appreciate Steve, Kassi and Pete's thoughts on it thus far. They are informed of my opinions on matters relating to Rocky and whatever thoughts they have about me, good or bad, merit consideration.

"We are building a Fighting Force of Extraordinary Magnitude.

We forge our spirits in the traditions of our ancestors.

You have our gra - - " (sound of SUV crushing body)

You win today's contest, goat lover.

Wait a second. Just type in quotes

we are building a fighting force

into your search engine of choice. Then hide under your desk or run out of the room. Weirdest search I've seen in months.

Sounds interesting. I can see it working. I am all for burring the hatchet. No not in anyone’s back either. I think it would be fun to have a sister cast in the area. I have no problem with allowing cross casting. As long as you perform when you say you are going to. This means not stiffing one cast for the other.

I know that you would have at least a few supporters in the THEM cast, _IF_ they could at least have some call in their casting. I know I'd hate to play parts I dislike week in and week out. As in, if more SP members are higher up and giving their fellow SP friends the good parts (or vice versa), THEM'll get pissed off. If you can work it out properly, I can most likely start the work of making my fellow THEMers warm to the thought.

That's refreshing to hear ... if you could, please email me:

gregwythe@yahoo.com

I think if Jim were in charge, there'd be no favoritism of casting. If David ever agreed to playing I can guarantee he'd play Brad time and time again despite how much he hates it. However, if I was a cast director I don't think I'd give up my leadership to soemone from another cast overnight. We could still have some cross casting without changing leadership.. as long as everyone's goal is to have a better show for the audience.

This is a bit long, so bear with me.

Regarding Bhazo's concern:

I think the concept that Greg put forth has been overstated somewhat (and you know he’ll correct me if I’m wrong) so let’s discuss.

The idea of a sister cast needs to be described better. When we talk of sisters, we’re talking about friendly sisters who nonetheless do not share the same room. What we are not talking about here is a Siamese twin whose movements must be synchronized and coordinated at every second. Any cast at River Oaks would by necessity have to have an independence to it, an ability to adapt to whatever idiosyncrasies pop up that are unique to itself. But I do think they could benefit from a more symbiotic relationship. There’s no need for an entire housecleaning at RO, just a little prioritizing and focus.

To elaborate further, a few points about this past Saturday’s show. There was latent talent in that cast that could absolutely be groomed (just as there is talent at SP waiting to be developed). I am unfamiliar with the names, so I’ll refer to characters – again, this past Saturday’s show:

1) The Riff has energy that exceeds much of what is seen in Webster on a consistent basis (in all modesty, present company excluded). He actively engaged the audience throughout the show and has the ability to stand out, which screams for him to play Frank. People who can do that are born with it and it’s extraordinarily hard to teach, maybe even can’t be taught. You have to want the audience to appreciate you and you have to have an eye toward how they respond to you. He has that. Although he seemed to direct a shade too much attention to Uber and Greg than the audience in general, his Time Warp was a welcome exception to that. He’s audible, always an appreciated feature in a performer. He needs to be surrounded by those who can play at his level and help keep him focused on the show.

2) The Janet, while not totally immersed in the role, probably concentrated the best on what she was doing throughout the show. She stuck to the dialog and conveyed the early character pretty well. She should have become much more unleashed by shows end and reveled in freedom by that point. I’d like to see her Magenta.

3) The Columbia was cute (never hurts) and also seemed willing to take her fair share of audience interaction. Wish she would convey more the emotional aspects of Columbia: be more upset when she’s upset, be more angry when she’s angry. The smile is nice, but it can’t be constant. Gotta mix it up.

4) the Frank conveyed one aspect of the role that is hard for most to get, but she seems to understand intuitively: control. She always seemed to be the commandant on stage and was happy to let others dance to her tune as she flitted from spot to spot. She only has to channel that more into the character; as opposed to seeming like a stage director on stage, she should seem like a star among lessers, i.e. Frank.

The following observations apply to all in that show:

1) STOP looking at the screen! As if this needs to be said. It’s something I used to see a tremendous amount of back in the day, but haven’t seen in a long, long while. Maybe I am accustomed to a cast that has more experience, but hasn’t this cast been around for at least a year? Here’s the trick (admittedly, something much easier to do when you’ve done this forever): Listen to what’s happening on screen, recall the associated image on screen that matches the audio cue, then do it. It does take some practice/repeated viewings, but anybody who wants to play should be able to do it fairly quickly, especially if focusing on only one role. (The Eddie needs to learn this.)

2) LEARN the lines and RECITE them. Again, something that takes some practice, but come on! I’m convinced that most people do in fact know the lines but have no confidence in their ability to render them 100% accurately. Who gives a shit! I’m still gonna believe you’re Frank more if you say, “Throw open the switches on the sunny applicator!!” than if you stand there like Marcel Marceau inside his glass box. This whole enterprise is predicated on playing out the part, making the audience believe briefly that you are that individual. Last time I checked, the only mute in the film is Rocky… and even he sings. Lines must be said. It facilitates finding the character by figuring out why they say what they say the way they do. (The Rocky needs to learn this.)

3) QUIT shouting call lines. Allright, kettles, listen up! The pot is about to speak! When the cast is as small as it appears to be there, it provides little opportunity for those involved to resist playing and sit back to take potshots at the film. It’s a great release, I know. There are weeks I enjoy just going up and doing call lines. But I think when you’ve seen the film over and over, you forget entirely what it’s like to be a virgin experiencing it for the first time. The fantastic humor behind call lines is the ridiculousness of average Joe movie-goer thinking he can affect the action on screen or that the actors can hear him. When those embodying the action address themselves or the idiocy of their own actions, it kills the believability. When Joel and the ‘bots (MST3K) do their shtick, it’s funny because the film they attack is taking itself utterly serious. Would it be nearly as funny if a character in as film they were MSTing suddenly addressed the audience and said, “Boy, I sure haven’t got a neck, have I?” Of course not. If you think so, then you’re an idiot who has no business operating heavy machinery, much less being in a cast. The point of call-lines is to make the virgin next to you laugh at the insanity, not to impress other cast members by getting to a call line before them. (The Frank needs to learn this.)

I hope I haven’t stepped on any toes by pointing out what I think are weaknesses there. I hope all who read this can take it as constructive criticism, inasmuch as I did not say merely that people were bad, I offered my opinion of the corrective behavior to be applied. Some of this could be done simply by example, no verbal tutoring required: David Z could show the Riff how to channel his enthusiasm more into the character. Kassi could show the Janet how to “feel released” and give a dead sexy smile during floor show. Jeff (2 F’s) could show Frank how to keep grounded in the part. Jarimie could show Eddie how to bring the house down. It works the other way as well. The Riff could show Jeff how to infuse a little extra energy into Riff. The Frank could show David Z how to convey more authority. In short, everybody wins.

There should be two casts. The intent should be to improve both of them, not cut them in half. Hopefully, both casts would blossom with increased talented membership. But just as important, the joy in being part of a cast is watching someone else’s rise from mediocrity to greatness and aspiring to do the same. It would be great if both casts were up to that challenge.

*wipes tears away from eyes*

Give the man an Oscar, already!

Bravo,,,Bravo,,,, (clap,clap,clap,clap)

I am always up to a challenge. Lets see what can happen.

Jim's speech has inspired me to perform.. Jarimie, if you haven't gotten my message, I'd love to be cast as Columbia for the 28th, and a naughty little elf as well (I have a costume I just made.. heehee..)....

Did someone say naughty elf? I am sooooo there for that show!!!!!

Its critiques like that one that make everyone think you're so great, Jim.

You know, Jim, if you ever start up a cast count me in.

Well, let's see. Jim's firebrand style has inspired Kassi & Lindsay. I'm fairly confident Jim'd be able to roust the Almighty Uber out of retirement. The mere notion of Jim running a cast was enough to get some kind, thoughtful words out of a THEMian. Am I right to sense some enthusiasm building here, or is there still some other reaction out there waiting to be heard?

Greg- you e-mailed me and let me know about this thread. I'd just like to stay fairly unknown, since I know both Jenni and Gin would be opposed to this merger, and I'd like to stay on their good side.

About the current THEM cast- I think about 50% of the cast is new, with only a month of experience, but not sure, since I haven't been there but 2 times in the past 6 weeks. I wasn't impressed by their performance the 2 times I saw it, either. As for me, I'm not sure if I want to stay with Rocky or just say screw it all, I'll find something more intellectual to do on Saturday nights. But, as for now, my copy of Alice is beckoning, so I'm heading out.

And Kassi, you know you'd be at the head of the list for any cast I had a say in. Not only is your Janet impeccable, but you're one of only two chicks that are able to pull off Rocky - the other being Kitty, who never fails to entertain me when she plays that part (though I could do without the nun). She just has a knack for it. And she's an ass-kicking Magenta.

BTW, David wouldn't be totally consigned to Brad - only the few times it would take for any prospective cast member to see and say "Ahhh, so that's how Brad should be played."

What's the argument for keeping things the way they are? Just curious...

Almighty? ALMIGHTY? So I'm the "Almighty Uber", now? Thanks, but no thanks. Just Uber will do nicely.

I might be inclined to give it a go were the cast located under 50 miles from my home. Which River Oaks definately is...

My only difference with any/all of the above is that I'm an advocate of the silence school of onstage in-character behavior. I think shows work better when actors MOUTH the lines but don't vocally pronounce them. We just don't sing as well as Curry, etc. and we can't upstage them, either. Perhaps low-volume recitation would be ok.

(Sound: glass breaking, screams and curses as all others throw things at Pete)

Pete -

Not all can do as well as you with a mere mimic. Looking back at performances I've enjoyed and those I've not, I have to admit there's a pretty strong correlation with that phenomenon. Its not hard to sense how it helps build better habits as a performer, also.

Then again, I'm debating someone who did an impersonation of Richard Nixon as The Crim, had an entire audience waiting on baited breath to see if he really was having an epileptic fit, and is overly fond of grabbing his crotch for moments of comic levity.

btw ... check your email (the new one). Trying to pry some info out of that demented head of yours.

I think people on stage, people supposedly enacting a character, mouthing the words is the height of ridiculousness. Of course most people can't sing as well as Tim Curry, but then most people can't act as well as Tim Curry either, so if you follow that logic, there'd be no cast.

That's "bated" breath.

And about mouthing, maybe reduced-volume recitation is the best midpoint between silence and crappy singing, uniting the film image with the schmuck walking around in front of the movie. We're doing this show basically as an imposition on the audience, so maybe we could be as unobtrusive as possible about it. So far as IS possible, running around in weird costumes and screaming at the tops of our lungs.

All other points, no argument.

Hey, when you have a show out in Webster, it may as well be "baited."

*Ba dum bum*

Greg-O... he's got a million of 'em!!!

And his point is sad, but true. Well, maybe not sad as much as bittersweet ;-)

I've seen jim run a cast
he did a damn good job if i remember
correctly- it was a long time ago!

and it would be nice to want to go to RIVER
OAKS It's at the halfway point between katy
and webster
of course those in charge of RIVER OAKS cast
probally need to put in their 2 cents

hi greg! hi uber! hi jeramie!
hi kassie! hi jim! thanks again for playin
frank for mine and kelly's b-day show! you were magnificent as always!
you are truely one of the most talented people
i know

see you guys around!
michelle/shanonn/kat's sister/
krystle's sister

Personally, I like it when you can hear the performers. The movie I've seen a thousand times, the performance is different every time. If you're playing Columbia and its time to bitch out Frank and you think whispering is a good show of anger you look like a freakin' idiot. Either get up there and perform or don't- no in between. What makes the rocky experience unique is that it is a 3d experience. You have a film role, a stage role, and an audience role. Its like a new form of theatre. You are not supposed to get up there and mimic the screen, otherwise why bother? The movie will outdo you every time just on budget alone (and that's not saying much). I don't compare the movie and the cast performance, but rather take them both in as a whole.

Right on the money, Kassi - as usual.

I am not sure how I feel about Jim directing, and the casts joining and all that. I love things the way they are, and I love being able to see Jim when I go up there (I am selfish... Mine, mine, mine!!) and I am affraid that him directing and all would take away from my time with him, not to mention all the great fun that Jim adds to the shows in webster.... But hopefully I won't get attacked for that statement! :) We may be up there tonight!!!
L
L

As to Kassi's point, there may be a test of the theory in the not-too-distant future. Ulysses helped originate the idea of a male Magenta using the voice of Peter Lorre-as-female-impersonator. Do people really want to hear the lines? Maybe this will reduce the appeal...

please bare in mind , i know nothing of the past relations between RO,and SP
===============================================
ok i have been with SP for about 5 months --doing nothing but crew ,not sure if this offer will help any but i would be willing to lend ideas and help out at another rocky cast if there crew is in need,or if their crew would like to sit thru a show at SP and see how we put things together, no 2 shows can be done exactly alike , enviroment prevents this, the idea would be for them to find ideas to improve there crew , as well as for us at SP to improve ours....,as i am typing this it occurs to me that something that has pleagued SP,and probly rocky in general is a lack of full time crew....

--if anyone wants to chat with me on this please email me as i likley wont get a chance to get back on this site for awhile....

My version of RO/SP relations: take the copy editor of Skin Two magazine, stoke him on benzedrine and parachute him into the Dakota badlands. His survival kit consists of only the following: a box of saltine crackers, four bottles of Crown Royal and a Linux laptop with etc/hosts rigged to accept only vulgar sites.

Take his word processing output from arrival to rescue and that's a good analogy for the situation.

has there been any further consideration on this ?

yes and no